Alexander Laszlo is co-founder and President of Syntony Quest and former Director of the Doctoral Program in Management at the Graduate School of Business Administration and Leadership (EGADE- ITESM) located in Mexico. He was recently elected President of the International Society for the Systems Sciences (ISSS). He has also worked at UNESCO and for the U.S. Department of Education. He has been Visiting Professor at the London School of Economics and the European University Institute. In addition to being the author of multiple book and journal articles, he is also a 5th Degree Black Belt in Korean Karate. This is part two of an exclusive Toonari Post interview, find the first part here.

TP: How do you believe that virtual education is transforming the world?                               

AL: I believe that universities and educational systems which do not keep up to date with current technology enhanced Interactive systems will be left behind. Education should encourage a dynamic play with creating knowledge and not only memorizing what is already known, because memorizing what we already know is not going to provide solutions to the current challenges faced by humanity. These challenges require a new paradigm, a new way of understanding. It’s not about learning and applying the models of last century; we have seen that these models do not work; we need people to develop their own response to their realities in which they live.

This is the purpose of Giordano Bruno; to create perspective. Take Facebook, for example. People use it but mainly for social pursuits. How can we create an education system that works like Facebook in which students share their learning with others and with a group of friends, and so among them discuss, comment, share extra resources and in this way go into an enriching conversation of shared understand on any particular topic?

So really, it’s like creating an education system based on this type of model, which is today one of the most widely used type of interaction. As I say, education systems that don’t use it will stay stuck in the past.

TP: What is the holistic paradigm?

AL: The idea of the holistic paradigm is not seeing the world in a fragmented way. For example, here in California, where I live, I need to see how to get clean water, the same as anyone anywhere else in the world. One solution would be to use all the water that falls from the mountains for irrigation, or we could also get it from our aquifers.

Now, if we don’t proceed with a perspective that considers the impacts of using water-intensive agricultural practices, then we are acting badly. We need to create a solution that allows the aquifers to be restored and regenerated. That’s the holistic way of understanding the secondary and tertiary impacts, and more so to really understand the interdependence of all living systems as the non-living systems, that also sustain life, as is the case of climatic water cycles.

This is the perspective and sensitivity that we want to foster among students, because once we understand that everything is interconnected, we see that nothing is only a problem from a technical perspective, as this type of thinking usually creates more problems [than] it resolves. So the idea is to create a system of solutions, not just a one-dimensional solution that could be purely technological or economic. Really, a set of solutions involves seeing and understanding dynamic and interactive patterns; once you understand a little bit and have developed sensitivity for seeing how these complex adaptive systems are intertwined with each other, you can start creating a new dialogue with nature, society, future generations, our ancestors and yourself. In this way, we create a flow of abundance without making the mistake of trying to maximize our return on investment, which is a way of addressing a context in only a myopic way.

TP: Recently you have been elected President of the International Society for the Systems Sciences (ISSS). What are your expectations in this new position?

AL: This organization was founded in 1954 and now has had a total of 56 annual conferences. My job as President is to create an international event that represents the emerging direction of systems science, which also includes human science.

I have chosen a theme for this year which is aimed at moving toward a systemic consciousness that heightens and draws upon relational intelligence. So my purpose is to stimulate a more dedicated development of relational intelligence, which must not only be empathetic and compassionate to others, but also embody ways of being interactive and interconnected with all living systems on this planet.

TP: How can you handle so many projects at the same time?

AL: I have several clones (laughs). My secret is that I have excellent teams, and this is what I want to bring to both the Giordano Bruno University and the ISSS. In both cases, we want to create a thrivable world of collaborative communities. Alone, I just can’t achieve all these goals, but luckily the people I work with are much competent than me, which ensures the success of all these projects.

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Alexander Laszlo is co-founder and President of Syntony Quest and former Director of the Doctoral Program in Management at the Graduate School of Business Administration and Leadership (EGADE- ITESM) located in Mexico. He was recently elected President of the International Society for the Systems Sciences (ISSS). He has also worked at UNESCO and for the U.S. Department of Education. He has been Visiting Professor at the London School of Economics and the European University Institute. In addition to being the author of multiple book and journal articles, he is also a 5^th Degree Black Belt in Korean Karate.

Toonari Post (TP): You are well known for being the co-founder and President of Syntony Quest. Could you explain to us a little bit about this organization?

Alexander Laszlo (AL): Syntony Quest is an educational non-profit organization whose purpose is to serve as a bridge between academia and the business world on topics of sustainability. Many NGOs are focused on working with the problems of people; however, they often lack a more strategic platform from the point of view of theoretical and scientific progress on sustainability issues.

In our organization we conduct interactive research on socio environmental issues with a, participatory approach that is informed by the emerging context. This is the main purpose of Syntony Quest, to be a bridge that fosters self-directed sustainable development in case-specific contexts.

Sustainability means not exceeding the carrying capacity of our planet- trying to maintain a certain balance. But the goal of Syntony Quest is to help create a prosperous world, one that goes beyond mere sustainability to true thrivability, fostering an economy of abundance.

We must create an economy based on nature and not on abstract economic concepts, which are very common in the current economic system.

TP: On the other side, one year ago Giordano Bruno University was opened, where you have the role of Director of Learning and Curriculum Innovation. Tell us, what is the pedagogical model used?

AL: Giordano Bruno University does not seek to impose models that are not relevant to the current context. We are against the subordination of ideas. We want to develop a process of change in the narrative presented by the instructor in which the student has to memorize theory in the most efficient manner possible. Normally, the student has only to learn and repeat the narrative presented by the teacher in order to get the best score, trying to be as faithful to the original narrative as possible.

We want to move beyond this approach, to a second and then to a third point. The second part consists in a change of the teacher’s narrative. The narratives become based in simulations, which allow students to be an actor in a narrative, such as an interactive game like Buckminster Fuller’s World Game or the Model UN experience offered at the high school level for students to simulate a Conference of the United Nations. A simulation like this allows students to experiment, and see how to practice playing different roles.

This second option is good but, what is the intention of Giordano Bruno? It’s not only about the first model that consists of repeating the teacher’s narrative, and it is even beyond the second, which is to live in a designed narrative experience of it, which is still provided by the teacher.

The third model consists of the students creating their own narratives around the learning themes being focused on in the course. This is a process in which students are given the opportunity to live the topics of the course into their own narrative experience, making the course material relevant to their own situation and their own environment in a global context.

TP: Could you tell us a little bit about the instructors and the academic community?

AL: The Giordano Bruno model is very interesting, because the goal is to create an international cultural community of students from many parts of the world based on study groups of 21 students. These groups function as cells in a structure that can have from 10,000 to 300,000 students in a single course. Nevertheless, we are always focused on the groups of 21 students.

This model allows us to significantly reduce the costs while at the same time increasing accessibility, thereby potentially reaching students in any part of the world. Of course, they need to have access to Internet. Once there, they can interact with the other students of their group.

In this process, there is an instructor who designs the course. The course has certain parameters that allow for the use of technology in ways that are rapidly becoming more common in education these days. We want ideas and information to arise through a collegial process among students.

Thus, the learning challenges and the instructions for how to find the resources are designed by the instructor. However, the model for understanding the lesson arises through the cell interaction among students.

We seek to encourage interactions, for students to do two things: the first is to take the lessons and discuss them with their family and community, and the second is to report their results, perspectives and outcomes with their group of 21. All this helps the student to know the global context of the challenges of being an evolutionary change in the world while at the same time learn to be sensitive to the needs of their locality.

The teachers that we have are people of advanced preparation in their chosen field; as Subject Matter Experts (SMEs), they design courses of large-scale and scope, which are then managed by a team of facilitators. However, the professor is mainly a designer of the course and responds only to questions that assistants can’t respond to. Primarily, we are looking to help students learn to answer their own questions and solve their own problems.

Read part two here.

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The economic crisis has raised unemployment, universities have reduced their available spots, and tuition is becoming inaccessible to the poor and middle class. So, is a college education really worth it?

Students must be certain that they want to go to a college these days. Though motivations vary – pressure from home, aggressive marketing, or social tendencies in the political arena – a university education is considered a good investment because higher pay has traditionally followed a higher education. However, many students argue that their decision is not only about money and that they see the value of a college education as a way to expand their knowledge and learn independence.

Students have to learn the hard lesson that going to a university is not enough. You also have to study the right subjects, not just your preferences. This way, you will have business contacts for when you graduate. Many students try to avoid the toughest subjects, such as math and chemistry, and instead, they choose the “easy” or ” fun” ones. They waste their time by choosing fields in the humanities that give little prospect of landing a job.

For instance, some students receive futile degrees in media, photography, or fashion, so they can get interesting jobs. However, employers will take advantage of them because they have many candidates to choose from since the market is already over-saturated.

I am not saying that the humanities is the wrong way to go, but graduates in those subjects have lower wages and are less likely to find work in their fields compared to those who graduate with a degree in science. According to a study conducted by Andrew Sum, a labor economist at Northeastern University and leading expert on the youth labor market, more than half of all humanities graduates get jobs that do not require university degrees.

The tuition fees and certain majors are the two main reasons to discourage students from going to college. First, the idea that they will be spending their twenties and thirties paying off their university or college debts once they have graduated is a big negative, and second, their preferred major will not guarantee them a job in their field, or they will end up working menial jobs.

According to a report by myUface in 2009,  U.K. tuition is between $5,500 and $28,500 USD per year, whereas in the U.S., the tuition is between $5,000 and $30,000. On top of that, you must add $8,000 for living expenses, if the student moves away from his or her hometown.

I am not discouraging students from going to a university, but they have to take tuition fees and their chosen field of study into account before they make their final decision. Choosing a science degree is a safer investment than a humanities degree because there are more jobs and less competition. Nowadays, majoring in the humanities field is a gamble, but if students want to succeed in this competitive field, they must know that there will be blood, sweat, and tears all the way.

If students do not choose higher education, there are other interesting professions, such as becoming an electrician or plumber. You can make good money, and skip three or four years at a college or university and the financial struggle from student loan debts. Dear students, the decision is yours.

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To choose to be a student right now in the UK is to place yourself in a very precarious situation. You can go the university route, where high tuition fees will hopefully be offset by strong career prospects, or you can go the technical college route as a means of earning a vocational skill which will result in more practical and accessible work experience.

Alternatively, you can choose to study abroad for the sake of your resumé, you can study part-time and find part-time employment to avoid incurring massive student loans, or if all else fails then you can take a gap year from your studies and attempt to find significant work experience which will potentially guide you onto the right academic path at a later date.

However, do a little asking around and you will soon find that a lot of people at different ages in these various positions are struggling to answer the question of, ‘Is education, in this day and age, and in this economic climate, even worthwhile?’.

What it all comes down to is all the statistics you have heard before: fees are up, the job market has narrowed, those already in employment are putting off retirement by a few more years, and so as a result the next generation of professionals are cast somewhat adrift.

Danielle Lavery, 24, attended both Belfast Metropolitan College and University of Ulster, and had the following to say about the attitudes of the staff in each institution:

When it comes to Uni, I think they get paid for nothing … [College] is a different story. They are dying to help in any way possible. I would study there forever.

This comment about being ‘paid for nothing’ is an echo of a point raised by many in the past – do university students get their value for money? Even before the fee increase became an issue, the majority of undergraduates were paying over £3,000 per year in tuition for less than a dozen hours of taught class per week.

At postgraduate level, the fees are higher and the taught class hours per week are lower, a structure which by its very design is becoming increasingly unappealing to younger students just starting out in higher education. Charlotte Hart, 18, is in her first year at Manchester Metropolitan University and said:

Joys = Getting to choose what you learn about more so than in previous education, and getting to move away (some people). Pains = lack of money.

Thus, the financial problem persists. Universities may offer a range of clubs and societies, and some may be developing world-class facilities, such as Queen’s University Belfast’s (QUB) McClay Library, but if students are not being compelled to make the most of these then the focus again turns towards the tangible benefits which students are receiving in turn for their tuition fees.

To go from a first year undergraduate to a PhD student, Amanda Krentzel, 23, spoke of the challenges and responsibilities that come from the mere development of one’s academic career. Having finished her undergraduate degree less than a year ago, Krentzel now finds that:

Suddenly, in the eyes of undergrads, you’ve aged a decade.

This point brings to light the academic hierarchy which is not nearly as well-documented as the financial burdens of student life. Pursuing academia through all of its stages means finding yourself becoming a relatively senior figure before you have reached your mid-20s. That routine of simply going to class, doing assignments, complaining about exams, and partying in the student union?

That is forgotten very quickly as the ‘student’ becomes a more active participant in the university community. Now, add together the personal responsibility and the workload, as well as the financial challenges, and the full extent of the pressures of student life become more apparent.

All this, however, is not to downplay the fundamental love of education that many students, even those in dire financial straits, manage to maintain. Sarah McBride, 25, is a postgraduate student at QUB and explained:

I’m pro-education. I’m here for the love of learning, not just for the job prospects.

Therein may lie the reason why so many young people continue to apply to higher education courses when they are well aware of the complete lack of guarantees of finding jobs: a love of learning.

In a year where recent graduates have emigrated from Europe to the United States, and vice versa, there are still plenty who believe that the student experience is still an invaluable and ultimately fulfilling endeavour to pursue. Yet for those who have emigrated to pursue their studies, the reasons are equally persuasive. James Hughes, a QUB graduate, moved to Maastricht to do his MA, and lists his motivations for doing do as:

The cheap fees, the potential employment prospects and the international atmosphere of the student body. Chance to live in another country is appealing and, for Maastricht specifically, it’s a great central ‘hub’ for travelling.

For those who remain at home, it remains to be seen whether the joys of education will continue to outweigh the pains, as another year goes by with more graduates than ever fighting it out for that one, elusive, perfect dream job.

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